DANIEL FOUR – Is It A Messianic Prophecy?

Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


Daniel 4:24-26  This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king: That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times  shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.  And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.


Daniel 4:33  The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.  And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

There is no hint of a messianic prophecy in this chapter. The dream has it’s fulfillment upon King Nebuchadnezzar. The King learned that GOD ruled the affairs of men, and that the power he, or any ruler holds, is because GOD grants it. The interpretation is clearly given in the Scripture; to add one’s own ‘ideas’ to it is to go against the Word of God.

2Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 

Daniel 5:18, 20  O thou king, the most high God gave Nebuchadnezzar thy father a kingdom, and majesty, and glory, and honour:  But when his heart was lifted up, and his mind hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him:

Daniel 2:21   And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

Jeremiah 43:10   And say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.

Proverbs 21:1   The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Romans 9:17   For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 13:1-2   Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:



The Problems I have with the doctrines the Jehovah Witnesses teach concerning the 144,000 and the year 1914 is as follows. The bible teaches us that the 144,000 are sealed between the Sixth and Seventh Seal of Revelation (Revelation 6:12 and Revelation 8:1). The Seventh Seal contains the Wrath of God (Revelation 8:5).

Thus the Seal of the 144,000, is the NAME of God in their foreheads, this seal keeps them from tasting the wrath of Jehovah. This same sequence of events is repeated in Ezekiel 9. In verse two we see the coming destruction from Jehovah. Then those who ‘sigh and cry’ for the abominations were marked (sealed), thus they are protected from the wrath (VS 5-6). Then in Ezekiel 10:7 you have the fire from the altar, as we did in Revelation 8:5. Thus the 144,000 are alive and sealed from the future wrath of God. They are they which are ‘alive and remain’, who do not sleep the sleep of death, but rather are living at the return of Christ.

The Watch Tower seems to pick and pluck scriptures and mistakenly apply them to the 144,000. In fact they take many of the most precious promises of GOD to his children and remove them from all but 8,000 living Christians (Supposedly 8000 of the 144,000 are still living). Being born of the Spirit they say was just for the 144,000. The eating of the Lord’s Supper is just for the 144,000. Being with the Lord Jesus during the 1,000 years is just for the 144,000. Receiving immortality at the resurrection is just for the 144,000. The priesthood of the believer is just for the 144,000. This isn’t good news to me friends, this is very sad. I’m glad that I know my God, that I have His Spirit, I’m glad that I can eat of his table, I’m glad that when Christ returns I will be like Him, and will forever be with him. I am glad that I am saved by his grace through faith alone.

The Watch Tower also teaches that the natural death of man, pays his penalty for sin in full. Thus there is no judgment; there is no giving account for the deeds done in this body. All but the few who have “Blasphemed the Spirit” says Watch Tower, will be resurrected and freed from every taint of sin, to have another chance at immortality. This is greatly against scriptures.

Also the way the Watch Tower comes to the 1914 conclusion is totally unscriptural. The fulfillment of Daniel 4 came to pass in Daniel’s day, not 88 years ago. When contemplating these strange doctrines, I told my wife, “There is NO WAY a person can come these doctrines from the study of Scripture alone”. I was RIGHT, and the Watch Tower admits to as much. I have some quotes from them to look at in the following pages also.

I believe the Scriptures must be the judge of every doctrine, as Jesus said, “John 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. “  Not his word as interpreted by the Watch Tower, but HIS WORD, as it is written. That is another issue. I have did some research on the origins of the “New World Translation”. It is based on the  “Wescott and Hort” Greek text. Wescott and Hort along with a Unitarian greek Scholar based their translation upon the Vaticanus greek Manuscript (Man. B) and the Sinaiticus Manuscript (Man. Aleph). These are the two witnesses for this translation. The Vaticanus manuscript was discovered in 1844 in a wastebasket in St. Catherine’s Monastery. It has 15,000 alterations. The Vaticanus Manuscript contradicts the Sinaiticus Manuscript 3036 times just in the four gospels. The Vaticanus also omits First and Second Timothy and Titus, which Westcott and Hort added. One way to tell if you have a ‘Westcott and Hort’ bible is to check out Romans 8:1, The Perverted Westcott and Hort greek leaves half the verse out “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”. . It also leaves out or puts in Italics Mark 16:9-16. Though the other 5,000 manuscripts INCLUDE BOTH.

The Received Majority Text is based on these other 5,000 manuscripts. The Watch Tower also had in their possession a Greber Translation of the New Testament; Which they referenced for their decision to put “a god” in John 1:1. Greber was a catholic priest, who became a spiritualist and received information on how to translate the bible from ‘spirits’. He also taught that Christ did not have a bodily resurrection, despite Jesus emphasizing that he was not a spirit. Luke 24:39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” They knew he was a spiritualist from early 1956, yet they continued to reference Greber until 1980. I would suggest that the Witnesses get them a real bible (One based on the Greek Received Text) and try reading it by it’s self (abstaining from the Watch Tower writings) and see if the BIBLE backs their doctrines. Don’t put your trust in man, but in GOD.


JUSTICE: 1. The virtue which consists in giving to every one what is his due;

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SINNERS? Romans 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

WHAT IS THE DEBT OF MAN? Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death;

All men have sinned against their creator and all men owe the penalty for sin, which is death. Some have suggested that because all men have not known the law of God, which defines sin, that these who die in their ignorance are freed from the wages of sin. Yet the bible assures us that all of mankind will be held without excuse, for basic truth is found in the mind of men and testified to by creation. 

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;   Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

When our first parents ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, man was given a conscience, that lets them know that certain things are against God.
Romans 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.  

Thus all of mankind (those who knew the scriptures, and those who do not) stands guilty before their righteous God, and his justice demands their eternal death.

Romans 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 3:19  Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 

WHAT IS THE WAY OF ESCAPE FROM THIS PENALTY? John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God in his great MERCY has provided a way of escape for man. He gave his only begotten Son, and His Son Jesus Christ suffered the penalty for our sin. He is now raised and stands on the right hand of GOD as our High Priest and mediator. When one believes upon Jesus, confesses their sins and accepts Christ’s death for their sins, Christ makes atonement for their sins (By the merits of his shed blood) and all their past sins are forgiven. This is illustrated in the Levitical priesthood. When a person sinned, they would take a sacrifice to the priest. The sinner would lay his hand on the sacrifice’s head and confess his sin. Then the sacrifice was slayed. The Priest would then take the blood into the Holy Place and make atonement for the sin, and the sin would then be forgiven (Leviticus 4:23-26).   You have the same principle under the grace plan. Though the blood of Jesus was shed for all, only those who come to the High Priest (Jesus) will receive the merits of his great sacrifice.

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 13:3  Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1John 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


2Peter 2:9  The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.

Judgment day comes after the thousand years, and after the second resurrection. (Revelation 20:3,5, 10,11,12).

Does the resurrected sinner have a chance of repentance before the judgment?

Hebrews 9:27-28  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

When Jesus returns the second the time, he does not return as a sin bearing Saviour, but rather as conquering King. His role of sacrifice and High Priest will for ever be finished, and those who have neglected their souls salvation unto death, or unto his coming are for ever without hope. The sinner will be raised in the second resurrection, the one of damnation and stand in his lot that he chose for himself in this life.

John 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:13  But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


NO! #1. The common death of men is but a sleep in the eyes of GOD, for it is temporary. When the maid had died the common death that we know, the Lord plainly stated, “the maid is not dead, but sleepeth” Matthew 9:24. All that have died this natural death are but asleep for they all will awake (John 5:28).

#2. As we have before read the penalty and punishment for sin is not reckoned until after the Day of Judgment. If the common death pays the penalty for our sin, the punishment is received before the judgment.

#3. If the penalty is paid by our common death, then our life that we now live will not be taken into account upon judgment, for the past wage would be clear; we would stand before our Creator spotless as Adam before his transgression.

#4. The scriptures testify that the sinner will face every work, ever secret thing, and every idle word that he spoke in this body, when he stands in judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14   Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matthew 12:36   But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

2Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

#5. Those who died without repentance will receive the wrath of God. Those who harden their hearts today are treasuring up for themselves wrath for the Day of Judgment. Those who have done wrong will die the second death (the true penalty for sin), and God has no respect of persons.

Romans 2:4-11  Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?  But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness: indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.

Colossians 3:23-25   And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Romans 14:10-11   But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

1Timothy 5:24   Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

Here Paul simply repeats the admonition of Solomon (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) by stating that some men’s sins are manifest or “evident” before going to judgment; and others are hidden from public view until the day of judgment.


Both the Righteous and the wicked will be raised from death and receive their reward.

John 5:27-29  And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act 24:15   And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

The righteous are raised at Christ’s coming.

1Thessalonians 4:16-17  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The righteous receive their reward of immortality at Christ’s coming.

Luke 14:14  And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

The First general resurrection occurs at the coming of Christ when the “Blessed and holy” or the “Just and Good” are raised.

       Revelation 20:4-6  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.  (See Matthew 19:27-28)

The bible clearly tells us that the dead who are not raised in the first resurrection will not be raised until the thousand years are finished. These are raised in the resurrection of Damnation or adverse judgment (See John 5:29). When they are raised, they face the Great White Throne Judgment.

Revelation 20:12-15  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:46   And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Penalty for sin is death, eternal death.

This natural death is simply considered a SLEEP in the eyes of God, for it is temporary.

Revelation 21:8  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

How about Those in the Old Testament, how are they saved, seeing they lived before Jesus died.
The gospel was preached to them, as it is to us.

Heb 4:2  For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Though Jesus didn’t come in their life time, they were sure he would, and they embraced that promise.

Hebrews11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Those who trusted and believed GOD was saved and accounted as righteous.

Galatians 3:6-9  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

What is the source of Jehovah's Witness Beliefs, the Bible or the Watchtower?

A Jehovah's Witness might answer: “The bible, we compare all things to the word of God, and accept that which is good”.

My response:  You are implying here that you are able to understand the Bible. I would say that your position on this is contradictory with the Society’s stated position concerning your ability to understand the Bible. (I’m assuming that you are not of the "remnant".) They hold that you cannot understand the Bible without their literature. How then can you evaluate their literature in light of the Bible since you can’t understand the Bible apart from what the Society’s literature tells you? I will now document this with the following statements taken directly from Watchtower publications. I urge you to check out the quotes for yourself to make sure I am not misquoting them.

Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the Scripture Studies aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years - if he lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures. (The Watchtower; 9/15/1910; pp. 298)

But if each of us were left to himself just because he has a copy of the Bible and were to direct his movements independently as he thought he understood the Word, what? It is likely, or possible, that there would be a great deal of confusion or working in competition among us. Hence, besides individually possessing God’s Word, we need a theocratic organization. Yes, besides having God’s spirit of illumination, a Christian needs Jehovah’s theocratic organization in order to understand the Bible. (The Watchtower; 6/15/1951; pp. 375)

The world is full of Bibles, which Book contains the commandments of God. Why, then, do the people not know which way to go? Because they do not also have the teaching or law of the mother, which is light. Jehovah God has provided his holy written Word for all mankind and it contains all the information that is needed for men in taking a course leading to life. But God has not arranged for that Word to speak independently or to shine forth life-giving truths by itself. His Word says: "Light is sown for the righteous." (Ps. 97:11) It is through his organization that God provides this light that the proverb says is the teaching or law of the mother. If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. (The Watchtower; 5/1/1957; pp. 274)

Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind. (The Watchtower; 10/1/1967; pp. 587)
Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. (The Watchtower; 7/1/1973; pp. 402)

No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. (The Watchtower; 12/1/1981; pp. 27)

We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah’s visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47) Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. (The Watchtower; 12/1/1990; pp. 19)

Channel to understanding the Bible... All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. (The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; pp. 8)

Based on these statements, I believe your claim of evaluating the Watchtower’s beliefs in light of the Scriptures is impossible within the authority structure of the Watchtower religion since the Society teaches that you cannot understand the Bible apart from their guidance. The Watchtower has removed the holy Spirit, and has added it’s self. John 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you…. 1John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

A Probing Question for Jehovah's Witnesses: I’m curious to know exactly which, if any, doctrines of the Society you have rejected based on your analysis of the Scriptures on a given point. I’m wondering if you can demonstrate that you really do disagree with the Society on something or if what you said earlier has never actually given birth to a difference. To say that you could disagree without ever actually disagreeing shows that it is somewhat of an empty theory.


#1. They teach Jesus was created, not begotten. A creature and thus not Divine.

#2. They say Jesus’ blood covenant was only for the 144,000  and not for us.

#3.  They deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ; even though Jesus had the disciples to touch his hands and feet so that they would be certain he was not a spirit, but the risen Lord.

#4.  They teach people to break God’s commandments, saying the 10 commandments were abolished.

#5.  They teach salvation comes through works.

I PRAY that you dear friend will take time and read the studies we present on this site. May GOD bless you with the truth, and separate you from Babylon.

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